Answer TWO of the
following:
Q1: In Chapter 11,
Arjuna begs to see Krishna ’s divine form, as it truly exists; once Krishna gives him the ability to do so,
he sees a bewildering number of forms and visions. In one of them, he sees Krishna as a “vast form, reaching the
sky, burning with many colors, with wide open mouths, with vast flaming eyes,”
who eats the greatest heroes and crushes their heads “into powder” (55). Why
does Krishna , who claims to be “whatever is
beautiful and good”(51) also appear as a monster and a killer? And how might
this remind you of something else we read earlier this semester?
Q2: Krishna is very critical of those who
merely follow the laws (Vedas) or who worship expecting an eternal paradise at
the end. Strangely, he seems more tolerant of people of others faiths, or even
of people with little faith at all, but who exhibit a “pure heart.” Why would
someone ignorant of the laws often have a better chance at salvation than those
who know and study them religiously, according to the text?
Q3: These chapters
talk a little more explicitly about the concept of Karma, and how it shapes the
lives and fates of men and women. What is Karma and how does it work, according
to the text? Also, based on Karma, why is Arjuna’s refusal to fight rather
pointless?
Q4: In many
religions, the world is seen as a constant struggle between the forces of light
and darkness, good and evil. While this does play a role in The Bhagavad
Gita, why is the idea of good vs. evil not entirely correct, according to Krishna ? Why is this, too, a mark of
delusion which leads men to suffering? (you might also consider how the text
relates to the Tao concept of yin/yang).
Hayden Blakemore
ReplyDelete1. He shows how he is all powerful and all mighty, but he is also seemingly human at the same time. As we know, humans are prone to make mistakes and mess up sometimes, which could result in becoming a monster and a killer. 'With great power, comes great responsibility' to quote good ole Uncle Ben from Spiderman, meaning the more power you have, the more responsibility you take on to use it for either good or evil deeds.
2. Those who do not know the laws, cannot attempt to uphold them and must be told of them for them to take effect in their life. Someone who studies them avidly on a daily basis and cannot uphold them would be judged more than what those who didn't know would, and have a better chance as "salvation".
Good responses--but remember, ignorance in this case isn't always a bad thing. The rules become "the way," and followers assume it is the ONLY way, the ONLY thing to follow. And thus they focus on the reward of the laws rather than the force that shaped them. Whereas someone ignorant but pure of heart could more easily find the true path because they are unburdened with "right" and "wrong" rituals and ideas. Possibly.
Delete1. How can Krishna be all things wonderful without also being all things terrible? One cannot have one without the other, according to the reading... and also according to the Tao Te Ching. The Yin & Yang may not exist individually. The more wonderful Krishna is, the more terrible he must be.
ReplyDelete2. The ignorance revealed by ones who practice only the shallowest versions of the teachings is much more insulting than one who has none of the teachings from which to learn. This is such a common theme in religion - found even in Christianity - those who don't know are given a pass, while those who know and STILL live in a way which offends the faith are threatened with punishment.
Yes, great response--he has to have both, and remember, these are dualities. They don't really exist. Only to those bound by the Wheel of Life and Death do we see good and evil as opposites fighting against one another. Krishna embodies both because he is everything, and Arjuna clings to the idea that the greatest force in the world shouldn't be "terrible." But Time is both good and evil, to use those terms, since it brings people into existence and ends their lives. It's one process that looks like two.
DeleteKendall Sanford
ReplyDeleteQ3. Karma, in The Bhagavad Gita, is one of the four Yogas that are considered sacred in the Hindu religion and, arguably, one of the most important. Each Yoga represents a different path to enlightenment, though they all go hand in hand meaning you cannot achieve Supreme enlightenment without all four. However, Karma is the Yoga of action and progression. It means to act out of complete selflessness in order to yield to one’s dharma, which ultimately helps one’s soul move on to eternity. Arjuna’s refusal to fight is out of personal interest; he does not want to kill his friends and family simply because he knows them and does not want to them to perish at the blade of his sword. Simply put, it will make him feel better to abstain from battle. This, however, is desire in the eyes of Krishna. His Karmic duty is to be the means of death for those men that Krishna has decided to kill.
Q4. Men are born into delusion in the sense that their parents teach them right and wrong, good and bad, love and hate, etc. (This could be seen as carving the block in the Tao Te Ching). According to Krishna, he is everything—the good, the bad, the evil, the love. He says, “And in truth they rest not in me: consider my sacred mystery. I am the source of all beings, I support them all, but I rest not in them. . .Thus through my nature I bring forth all creation, and this rolls round in the circles of time” (43). Krishna breathes life into all things. To Krishna, the good and the evil are still manifestations of him that require recognition and appreciation. To be ignorant of evil is a delusion.
Great responses--though I would go further and say not only to be ignorant of evil is a delusion, but according to the book, to see good and evil is a delusion. Only men and women bound to this world see things in such terms, whereas Krishna is ONE--everything all at once, just as life and death are not two seperate forces. The only way to break away from karmic action is to come to this understanding, which not surprisingly takes many lifetimes and superhuman selflessness!
DeleteShaynee
ReplyDeleteQ1: Krishna I believe can be both wonderful and a monster at the same time because as any other God with them having power over everyone can have the ability to make the people under them do whatever he wants. For example, if Krishna has a conflict with someone he could punish them causing him to be a monster, or someone he likes or is close friends with he could spoil and be the wonderful Krishna that people say he is. Both like in our other two books that we've read the Gods in the books and poems are both powerful, wonderful but can also at the same time be a monster if they want to be.
Q2: Someone Ignorant to the law I personally don't think would have a better chance at salvation than rather someone who studies them religiously because I feel as if that you are religious and study the laws both in a personal view and religious view that you would be better off by knowing more.
Good responses...yes, creator would also have to be a destroyer, since to give life necessarily gives you the power to take it away. Krishna says he is Time itself, and time does that--allows birth and encourages death. These seem monstrous and evil to humans about to die, but it's really just another side of a wheel we rarely see, but has always been spinning in plain sight.
Delete2. Someone who isn't familiar with the laws would have a better chance of salvation than someone who is familiar with the laws because they technically don't know right from wrong unlike someone who studies and practices the laws and applies them to their every day life.
ReplyDelete3. The book says, "Karma is the force of creation, wherefrom all things have their life" (39). Arjuna's refusal to fight is pointless because Krishna keeps telling him and encouraging him to fight and he also points out that there could be sinful reactions (karma) for not fighting.
Yes, good point--if he doesn't fight, he is not doing his duty, and the karma will weigh him down in the next life. According to the book, the karma of his foes have doomed them to die in this life, and his karma has placed him here to be hte agent of their demise. To mistake one's self for the actor is to fall prey to delusion, since you didn't decide to kill them--you're just doing the will of God.
DeleteQ2: If one is not familiar with the laws it is very difficult to uphold them. They do not know right from wrong unlike someone who studies the laws very closely. Those who really study the laws better know what the laws entail.
ReplyDeleteQ1: It is kind of a point from perspective. You can be just the worst guy out there and when an evil beast is presented to you it is a sight of what is good because your perspective is different than that of someone who would not harm a fly.
Good response: true, that someone who knows the laws can follow them better, but the laws are just a path--a finger, not the moon itself. But many people assume the laws ARE the moon, the way to get to salvation, the way to escape the wheel of life and death. And yet someone who is ignorant yet pure of heart can see through desire to something better, even without knowing why.
DeleteAnna T.
ReplyDeleteQ2- The reason that Krishna might see people who just follow the rules as less than is because I believe he has proven that what matters is on the inside. If we do not truly mean what we do then we are not really part of the cause. I can understand and agree with this idea. We discussed in class something along these lines recently. The whole if I don't have an affair even though all I can think about is having an affair we all agreed was probably just as bad as performing the act. I think Krishna is also very smart to consider that even those who do not have the same beliefs or who are not as faithful are still stronger more complete people than those who just go through the motions. At least those people stand for something still and they are still trying to seek enlightenment even if it is by the wrong accords.
Q4- I think that this concept relates to the idea of most of their ideas. Everything seems to be circular and not linear. It is such an idea of balance and that without one side the other does not exist. I understand this also because everyone's good or evil is so dependent on who is looking at the situation. Our outlook is what really decides where it stands. We pick what is good or evil and it can be completely different than the person next to us.
Great responses--and yes, the intention and the reward is what binds us to 'evil' karmic acts. If you spend your entire life wanting to do something, but don't allow yourself because you think it's wrong, that's being bound by two desires, each of which will drag you down. Being good for a law isn't the same as being good simply because it's in your nature to do so.
DeleteQ1. Krishna claims to be whatever is beautiful and good because everything he does in his perspective is for the greater good, he doesn’t see the evil deeds he has done as making him a monster or killer, but he sees them as making him great. This reminds me of the cannibal hymn, most people see being a cannibal as a bad thing but in that case it was seen as making him even more powerful.
ReplyDeleteQ2. According to the text the people who are ignorant of the laws seem to make the “right” choices between good or bad, and those who stick just to the rules often overlook the emotion meant to be behind the actions not spoken through the words of the rules or laws.
Tanner Lyon
Yes, it's like The Cannibal Hymn, and maybe explains that work even better: maybe the king doesn't eat the gods as much as he IS the gods, and eating is a metaphor for becoming part of them once more in death?
DeleteEthan Hays
ReplyDeleteQ1: Krishna appears as a monster and a killer because he is everything. If he some great and awesome creature, he also has to be a monster. You have to have bad if you are going to have good. It reminds me of the poem about the god who ate the other gods that we read earlier in the semester. Modern society would see the cannibalism part as a negative thing, whereas ancient society saw it as a sign of power.
Q3: Karma is "the force of creation." Basically karma is everything you do. Not just the good, not just the bad, but everything. Arjuna's refusal to fight is pointless because the men he would fight are already dead. Krishna has already picked the men to die and it is Arjuna's duty to do it. Arjuna is basically just the instrument used to fight and kill the other men. He doesn't really have a say in the matter and even if he doesn't do it, Krishna will just find another instrument and the men will die anyway.
Good responses--he is both the beginning and end, good and evil, but those are dualities; so he wouldn't see it this way, since it's all ONE to him. We have trouble seeing that so, like Arjuna, can only see him as a monster and a savior.
DeleteVictoria Aguilar
ReplyDeleteQ1. Well it sort of brings us back to the Yin and Yang. It's a balance scenario. With one being good, you only see good, with one being bad, you only see bad. It comes down to perspective if you think about it. That's why Krishna can be beautiful and terrifying. It all depends on who you are.
Q2. I think the person who doesn't know the law very well wouldn't be held as responsible as the one who studies it. The person who doesn't know, wouldn't understand how the laws work, therefore letting them have a slight chance of salvation. To those who study the laws, they are held at a higher standard because they should know what is right and wrong. Their studies should guide them and let them know what is at cost if they were to disobey the laws.
Good responses; and you're right, knowing the laws is very important. But often, those who immerse themselves in the law become lost in them--they think that's all there is, and they start seeing the world in terms of those who know and those who don't. Whereas if someone is ignorant but loves selflessly, they have a better chance of seeing God unbound by rules and traditions (according to the book).
Delete